Does Money Matter?
"Here’s the thing: a goal-oriented woman (whatever those goals may be, from climbing the corporate ladder to being a successful artist to building an entrepreneurial empire) usually wants a goal-oriented man... A man’s bank account matters a lot less to me than his ambition and drive."
You guys may have seen our AskWomen video series, where we got some real women to have some drinks and answer your questions about whether a guy can ever get out of the friend zone, whether size matters and whether body hair is a deal breaker. Well, here's a single girl's opinion on more of your questions. Readers have been kept anonymous.
Q: I recently went on a date with a young woman who said she doesn't date men her age because they "don't have a lot to offer." I took this as a very shallow and materialistic response. Because of today's economy, has it become increasingly OK for a person to put more emphasis on what a partner has to offer monetarily and be able to do so without being considered materialistic? Or is love still enough for some women? A: According to the Universal Order of Women handbook (in some sects, it’s Womyn), I really shouldn’t be telling you this, but we’re friends, right? We are? OK. Come closer. Closer. Here it is: All women are not the same.We don’t look the same, we don’t dress the same, and we certainly don’t all want the same things. All we universally have in common is a vagina (and sometimes not even that). That being said, I’ll try to answer your question the best I can, both from my perspective and from an overall one.Some women have chosen to follow a traditional path in life, which means settling down with a man who can support them, bearing and raising children, and taking care of the home and family. I don’t judge them for that, because I believe feminism is about choices, not limitations. But I definitely can’t speak for those ladies, let alone quantify their financial needs. (I suppose you could break it down to the lifetime cost of a child, multiplied by how many children she wants, and add a geographically average mortgage and living expenses to it, but that seems a bit intense). So if you want this kind of lady, then I really can’t help you as I have no idea what on earth they want. But if you’re looking to land a more career-oriented woman, or even a creatively ambitious one, the stakes are a bit different. I won’t say money is completely off the table as a consideration, because if a woman works hard to support herself she probably doesn’t want to spend all her money supporting a man with no means. But even that is not always the case. Here’s the thing: A goal-oriented woman (whatever those goals may be, from climbing the corporate ladder to being a successful artist to building an entrepreneurial empire) usually wants a goal-oriented man. A man’s bank account matters a lot less to me than his ambition and drive. Recently a very attractive retail employee was interested in me, and I told my friends I didn’t want to date him. Here’s why: It isn’t because he folds shirts all day (OK, maybe a tiny bit); it’s because beyond that job, I didn’t see any indication that he wanted any more out of life. He wasn’t a writer pursuing his dream of penning the great American novel, or a business-savvy web designer trying to get his own company off the ground, or a musician struggling to make it (although dating band dudes is a whole ‘nother enchilada of no thanks), all while making ends meet with this job. This job in and of itself (or any comparable job) is all he seems to want out of life. I want more, much more, and so I can’t see myself with someone who doesn’t. Which means whether he was a shop keep or a decently salaried office drone or a high-paid miserable accountant, I wouldn’t want to be with him.So, anonymous reader, what your date may have meant when she said younger men “don’t have a lot to offer” is that perhaps they’re not as driven and ambitious as older men who are more set on their paths and hungry to be better at their chosen “thing.” But poor thing is wrong, because there are plenty of older dudes who are also captains of the S.S. No Aspirations, and, believe me, it’s not their maiden voyage. Age isn’t a factor here, and neither is materialism. It’s more intangible than that: It’s a shared future. At least that’s my take on it. Your date also might have just been a trife bitch, in which case, I can’t really speak to her state of mind because I’m way cooler and would totally love to go to Chili’s with you (which is where I imagine you took her, as they have excellent meal deals). Choose more wisely, and you’ll find a girl who has the same end game as you: happiness. Or as my homegirl J.Lo put it, “Love don’t cost a thing.” She also said that, to her, staying real is like breathing, but I don’t really know what that means, so let’s just end this here.
The Dating Rules
"So obsessed are we with the bragging rights and the ego boost that come from her agreeing to see us again that we skip the part where we ask ourselves if she’s really earned a callback."
Dating is not a one-man show. Some guys -- out of gratitude for getting the date in the first place -- forget that the woman has to play her part, too. You’ve worked up the courage to ask her out because that’s what men do. You’ve chosen the spot because it’s your responsibility to impress her. And you’re paying, because, progress in sexual roles aside, men still need to step up and own that part.
But what is her part in this dance?
You may be leading, but if there were a panel of judges à la So You Think You Can Dance, both of you would be scored. We cannot forget that we have standards and that women have to meet them. Too many times I've seen guys planning the second date before they even consider if she deserves another shot. So obsessed are we with the bragging rights and the ego boost that come from her agreeing to see us again that we skip the part where we ask ourselves if she’s really earned a callback.
We have to remember that these first dates are as much about us learning about her as they are about worrying if we are getting it right. I can even recall a time when I didn’t call my date out on some borderline racist comments merely because the prospect of sex was on the table. She was hot, but there needs to be a line. With that in mind, here are five big deal breakers that separate the girls who deserve to go home with you and those who don't.
The Service-Appreciation Rule
This one is obvious, but it’s key. There are few things less attractive than rude. A good place to look for red flags is in how she treats the waiter. If I'm out with an entitled girl who treats others around us poorly, I'm looking for the door. A date that makes the waiter feel nervous or lesser than us makes me feel like I need to double the tip out of guilt -- and rudeness is not a trait you can really change in a person. So while you’re sweating to make sure you order the right wine and have a good anecdote or two, don’t forget to make sure she is being respectful of the place you’ve invited her to. It is, literally, the least she can do.
The Dance-Around-The-Bill Rule
You’re paying. It’s pretty simple. If you have invited some girl to join you somewhere, it seems pretty obvious to me that you better step up and handle the bill. So if you’re on the lower end of the income meter, choose something a little more modest, because the waiter is dropping that bill on your side of the table.
But here's the kicker: We know we should pay, but that doesn't mean she should expect it. I know it seems like a circular argument, but a girl who doesn’t even look at the bill when it comes is coming from a vastly different place than a girl who makes an offer. She is allowed to tell her friends you’re a complete jerk if you let her pay, but you are entitled to the common courtesy of her offer. The fact is, this part is less about her sending you a signal of her appreciation of your gesture, and more about her basic perception of relationship dynamics and even the way money factors into it. There are dating etiquette rules, and for me, if this one gets missed, things are off to a rocky start.
"The only thing worse than rude is drunk and rude."
The Conversation Rule
Nobody likes a chatterbox, but even worse is one who shows no interest in what you have going on. I have been on dates where the girl has amazing stories and seems to live an extraordinary life, but by date’s end, she has no idea if I even have a job.
Let me be clear: It is important to ask a lot of questions and get a sense of what her life is all about. This is not only about showing interest, but getting a sense of how she perceives her own situation -- is she happy, does she speak of her job and family like a curse she is trying to break, etc. The real problem is not if she handles that perfectly (the girl is also allowed to be a bit nervous too -- it’s a date, after all), but to see if she is egocentric or generally curious about your situation. If you see that she has not asked you a single question about what you like or how much your job can drive you crazy, it’s a very good indicator that this girl is self-involved. To be fair, you have to remember to do your part, but if she does not reciprocate, call off date No.
2. She is likely looking for an actor in her own play, not a co-playwright.
The Drinking Rule
The only thing worse than rude is drunk and rude. I am not talking about a girl who starts ordering shots of tequila and shrieking in delight when the waiter arrives with her appetizer. You don’t need my advice to know if that’s a problem (in fact, that may be your idea of a perfect date). But if you are serious about dating, you need to keep an eye on the casual alcohol intake. I can handle my wine. A pretty strict rule of thumb for me is whether or not she is drinking more than I am and if it looks like she needs it to find me funny.
I am not suggesting a fun date is out of the question, but just that you should keep note if more glasses of wine go into her mouth than pieces of food. If that tendency is leaking out on the first or second date, you can be sure it will be something that will escalate. The right girl would know enough to wait a bit longer and get to know me before we both begin to embarrass ourselves. It’s not only about the drinking; it’s about self-awareness and her ability to socialize with some degree of class.
The Thank-You Rule
Unless you have found the worst date on the planet, she will say thanks when the bill gets paid. That’s just basic manners. But dating goes beyond the simple manners, and the standards are a little different than a dinner in which you treat a client to a steak.
I am very big on the “next day" thank you, either in the form of a text or a call. If you have succeeded in making a first or second date anything more than just awkward conversation between two relative strangers, that is a credit to you and your skills in the dating game. The communication the next day is key, but the main component of that is that she needs to take the first step.
You already did your part when you asked her out. The reason why this one is key is twofold. First, it reinforces that she appreciates what you did -- that you had the nerve to ask her out and you planned an evening. The right girl will call attention to this fact in a nice way in the 48 hours after the date. The second reason is that if she skips this one, she is likely not interested in a second date. Don’t start getting creative and reaching out to her in clever ways to open the door for the thanks. Trust me, I’ve tried it. Posting on her wall does not come across as casual; it’s a pretty obvious play. You need to take this as a hint. If she hasn’t really given you the proper follow-up, you should know not to waste any more time.
The Final Word
The bottom line is that men need to remember that dating is a two-way street. The pressure will always be on us to step up and take the reins, but we are also entitled to judge the performance of our costar. As a rule, confidence is the No. 1 thing women gravitate toward (they all say sense of humor, but that isn’t worth anything if you’re shy and insecure). And confidence means being secure enough to stand by your standards. At the very least, you deserve that.
